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Dune: Part Two (2024) dir. Denis Villeneuve

i just had an argument about the jedi so now i’m going to rant about how i perceive them

so basically the sith are these evil extremists in the force who harness their hatred and stuff

to me that makes the jedi extremists in the opposite direction. anytime you feel a negative emotion just don’t? and don’t even think about favoring someone, you’ll turn evil immediately!

while i know there is a good reason to have these rules and they’re there from experience it is still very extreme and a lot of things could’ve been done differently.

for example; a child is taught from a young age that they’re not allowed attachment and that their negative emotions can cause them to fall into the dark side. of course they’re still going to feel attached to something one day. how would that child feel? inadequate? defective?

watching dune (part 2) really makes you think about organized religion and how it can be harmful. the jedi are basically a cult.

the argument was about how i don’t think the jedi were these angels they were made out to be and the other person has been brainwashed into thinking that that were.

would i rather be a child soldier who isn’t allowed to fall in love or love a parent figure more than the next guy or live a normal ass life and fall in love (optional) and live happy with the people around me??? 🤔

i feel like we need a middle ground

bc if anakin got that middle ground i’m sure things would’ve been completely different. if obi-wan hadn’t pushed him away and just said ‘i love you’ once i’m sure Anakin wouldn’t have felt like an outcast

but hey, that’s just a theory

I think you misunderstand the concept of attachment and emotional regulation and why the Jedi do it. The Jedi concept of attachment and emotional control isn't saying that Jedi are never allowed a negative thought in their lives. It's saying that a Jedi should not let their negative emotions control their reactions. It's connected with the idea of being in the present moment. If you're stuck in the past or are in constant worry of the future you cannot be conscious of the present, and you might suffer from your anxiety or your past mistakes may freeze you up. It's good to learn from the past and acknowledge a possible future, but allowing the emotions of fear or regret to guide you means you'll make mistakes.

So take Obi-Wan when Qui-Gon is stabbed. He goes at Darth Maul viciously and desperately. He is obviously angry, but the anger makes him sloppy. It seems like he's stronger at first, but it doesn't help him in the fight. It isn't until he's in the pit (the low ground) where he's able to centre himself, acknowledge and let go of his anger and defeat Maul, even from the position of disadvantage.

Obi-Wan loves Qui-Gon, but the fear of losing him leads to anger and hatred toward Maul. The suffering is both outer with Obi-Wan almost losing the fight, and inner being stuck in grief unable to move past it, but he's able to move past it and be in the here and now. Not stuck in the past moment of Qui-Gon being struck or in the future moment of having to live without Qui-Gon's guidance. He focuses on the fight and wins. Does his moving past his negative emotions mean he loves his teacher less? Of course not. When the battle is over and it's safe he lets himself openly weep in grief.

It isn't that Jedi don't feel. Jedi are magic empaths whose emotions are tied to their magic powers. They are taught the concept of non-attachment because they have powers that can cause so much damage if abused. They are taught to love everyone equally and not see one life as more important than another.

Anakin's fate wouldn't be different if he was raised to be allowed to openly love Padme. The problem has never been his love. It's that he is afraid to lose her. His fear. He's willing to let an evil dictator kill the Jedi. He's willing to bow at his feet he's willing to murder children so that he does not have to live in a future where Padme is dead. It sounds like love, but consider Padme and what she stands for. She would never want people to suffer for her. She would never want an Empire to replace democracy. Anakin isn't doing any of it for her. He's doing it because of his own fear of how he'll feel when he loses her.

And when he's confronted by her and Obi-Wan he thinks he's just lost her anyway. And in his rage attacks her. Because now it's Padme making him feel the loss of Padme. That's not love that's attachment and jealousy. He can't let go of his attachment to her and so causes the suffering he was trying to avoid. If he had accepted his grief. If he had been in the present. If he had acted like a Jedi then Padme wouldn't have died.

Also just a note up until the Clone Wars the Jedi were not soldiers. They were peacekeepers and negotiators. They carried lightsabers for defense for themselves and others, they aren't supposed to be the aggressors. Clone Wars I will grant you yep. They became unwilling soldiers this is what Sidious wants. Even though what they're fighting is non-sentient the people they're fighting beside are. The clones are dying beside them and the Jedi feel death. Being soldiers wears at their emotions. They love everyone. They feel all the death. If they weren't able to acknowledge and move past their grief they wouldn't be able to function. Sidious is doing what he can to weaken the Jedi. Part of that is battering at their emotions.

The Jedi aren't perfect angels. They're human people, but the way they choose to live and raise their younglings isn't an extremist lifestyle.

Jedi definitely make mistakes but in the end they are trying to do what’s right. They aren’t perfect and post like these have helped me understand their whole thing about emotions and attachments.

The Jedi are modeled in part by warrior monks of Asian religions, so it makes perfect sense to have an ascetic order of peacekeepers who train in martial arts and religion from a young age. From my understanding, both of Western and Eastern monasticism, it was considered easier on all parties involved- the child, the parents/family, the monastery, and the order as a whole- that novices be surrendered to and brought up from a very young age specifically so that they all could adapt quickly. Anakin, at 9 years old, has already developed mentally, physically, emotionally, and Force-fully into his own person; not to this is a bad thing, but merely that he has developed habits and formed opinions that are so intrinsic to who he views himself as a person that he is unyielding, unwilling to change and adapt to his new reality as a Jedi. THIS is what the Council was concerned about when they declared him too old to train.

Additionally, there was no talk of removing or disabling Anakin's powers, just that he would not be trained as a Jedi. We know in the prequel trilogy that beings can and do leave the Order for various reasons (Jude Watson's Trials of the Jedi kid's book series, and it's follow-up, The Last if the Jedi, includes a contemporary Padawan in Anakin's age group who goes through the Trials before the Clone Wars start and then chooses to leave); the High Republic novels are also covering characters who are neither Jedi nor Sith, but who can access the Force regardless. If Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan had heeded the Council and not followed through on training Anakin as a Jedi, he conceivably would have been able to walk away and sought training or experience elsewhere for his abilities. He just would have had to work/earn his way instead of having everything bankrolled by the Jedi.

Palpatine and the Sith WANT the Jedi to come across as rigid and intolerant- it's a classic strategy of undermining your opponent by ascribing your own vices to them; they WANT the Jedi to appear to be moralistic crusaders who force star systems to join the Republic at lightsaber point. By maneuvering the Jedi into positions of military authority, Palpatine negates their traditional role as unbiased arbiters [connecting side note, but given the large number of pacifist characters and cultures in the series, particularly the Naboo and the Alderaaneans, the implication is made that MOST planet systems are demilitarized, meaning that the military experience of the Jedi is NEEDED, or the higher ranks of command would be empty or filled by incompetents.] Even though the totality of the Jedi Order does not owe allegiance to the Republic- there are Jedi enclaves outside of Republic space- the Clone Wars helps create the perception that they do the Senate's bidding. Just as, in the Western history of Crusader orders and armies, the Templars, Hospitallers, Teutonic Knights, etc., were technically independent of allegiance to a particular crown/country, they all gained reputations as being controlled/influenced by the King in whose lands the order had their international headquarters. So too with the Jedi and the Republic.

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